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From: Mark Kille
Subject: [TheoTalk] Exodus 1-16
Hello all,
Moving on from Walter Brueggemann! This time I will be quoting Terence Fretheim, from his book "Exodus" (John Knox Press, 1991), which is part of the "Interpretation" series.
"The relationship between theology and narrative is a problem of some consequence. That the book of Exodus is filled with matters of theological interest is clear; one need only note the extent to which God is the subject of the speaking and the acting that occur. At the same time, Exodus is not a systematic treatise, presenting an ordered reflection on theological issues. Five observations are in order on this point.
1. The fundamental purpose of Exodus is...to confront the reader with the word of God, not a constructive theological statement...Particular theological statements have been formulated in relationship to concrete situations faced by the audience...
2. The word spoken may also be a 'timeless' word (e.g., convey a universal truth or an aspect of the divine nature), but the particular formulation of it is context related and hence is potentially inadequate or even unsuitable for any or every subsequent generation...
3. The narrator does not stake out theological positions that iron out all tensions...Differing views in the inherited traditions may have been allowed to stand alongside one another. Or, the narrator is seeking to mediate among competing points of view...Or, there is some theological development in the narrative itself. Or, the tension may be inherent in the theological position of the narrator.
4. The theology in Exodus is carried by certain types of literature: story, law, and liturgy...all theological work with the text must take into account the genres in and through which theological statements are made.
5. Nevertheless, the text itself invites, indeed provides, a warrant for more general theological reflections...Story and generalization do not stand opposed to each other; in fact, they are integrated with each other...
A recognition of the special theological interests of the narrator will provide some keys to the interpretation of the book...Until recently, the interpretation of Exodus has been almost exclusively concerned with the theme of redemption...Generally, God's work in creation provides the basic categories and interpretive clues for what happens in redemption and related divine activity...God's work in creation has been shown to be life-giving, life-preserving, and life-blessing...What God does in redemption is in the service of these endangered divine goals in and for the creation...The deliverance of Israel is ultimately for the sake of all creation...
The book of Exodus is concerned in a major way with the knowledge of Yahweh...This suggests the following typology for the understanding of revelation in Exodus: (1) the faith heritage of the community; (2) God's specific disclosure to and interaction with Moses; (3) the experience of the event itself; and (4) Moses' interpretation of the event to Israel and to others...This is not simply a matter of 'progressive revelation'...God does not remain unchanged by all that happens. God does some things that God has never done before; the interaction with other characters also shapes the divine identity. God is not only one who is; God is also one who in some sense becomes." (pp. 10-15)
To sum up, Exodus presents us with a faith that:
--is based on and grounded in lived experience
--is respectful of, but not bound to, historical formulations
--includes different voices, yet points towards an overarching unity
--affirms not only *that* God redeems us, but *why* God redeems us
--affirms that "God is still speaking"
In short, Exodus presents us with a very UCC sort of faith.
Peace,
Mark Kille
John P. Webster Library
From: David Madden
Subject: [TheoTalk] questions for Terence Fretheim
"The fundamental purpose of Exodus is...to confront the reader with the word
of God, not a constructive theological statement"
1. What is the difference between the "word of God" and "a constructive
theological statement"?
2. Can the "word of God" be found outside of theology?
"The word spoken may also be a 'timeless' word (e.g., convey a universal
truth or an aspect of the divine nature), but the particular formulation of
it is context related and hence is potentially inadequate or even unsuitable
for any or every subsequent generation..."
There is also a "timeless" quality to the works of Shakespeare, but we are
generally more successful at separating "universal truth" found in Hamlet
from the "particular formulation" of Elizabethan England. The anti-Semitism
found in "The Merchant of Venice", for example, is obvious to even a casual
observer. It is much easier to observe this being acted out before us,
identify and analyze it and then decide whether Shakespeare is really our
cup of tea or not. It has been my observation and, at one time, my
experience, that such detached objectivity is not as easily attained when
looking into the Bible. For the most part, the Bible is not looked upon as
being so relative as "to be or not to be" suitable "for any or every
subsequent generation". The Bible is looked upon as being the unchanging,
everlasting Word of God and its "particular formulation" applies to us every
bit as much as it did to ancient Israel. My guess is that this might be
truer than not for most UCC'ers.
3. What is the Word of God?
"Differing views in the inherited traditions may have been allowed to stand
alongside one another. Or, the narrator is seeking to mediate among
competing points of view...Or, there is some theological development in the
narrative itself. Or, the tension may be inherent in
the theological position of the narrator."
Once again, I am reminded of George's identification of the gap between the
pew/pulpit relationship and the scholarship that differentiates among these
"inherited traditions".
4. How important is the need to close the gap between the local church on
the village green and the seminary?
"God's work in creation has been shown to be life-giving, life-preserving,
and life-blessing..."
This statement is true for us to the extent that we ignore the opposite of
these actions. But ignoring the opposites doesn't bring us closer to truth,
it moves the truth away from us. As shown in both the Bible and nature, life
is, in fact, given, preserved and blessed. But we also see life taken,
crushed and cursed. We don't do ourselves any good if we see "God's work in
creation" as being all light. There is darkness as well.
5. How do we account for and deal with the darkness of God?
"The book of Exodus is concerned in a major way with the knowledge of
Yahweh..."
In terms of Yahweh's short-sightedness and bad temper when poor planning
causes things to go awry, it is time for us to be about the work of a new
"particular formulation". I think this is a purpose served by Theotalk.
6. Is Yahweh God or a "particular formulation" now, in many ways,
"unsuitable" for this present generation?
"God does not remain unchanged by all that happens. God does some things
that God has never done before; the interaction with other characters also
shapes the divine identity. God is not only one who is; God is also one who
in some sense becomes."
I think it would be more accurate to say that our ideas about God change and
evolve as we experience life.
7. If we say "God is" or "God is not" are we really talking about God or
what we imagine God to be?
From: Mark Kille
Subject: Re: [TheoTalk] questions for Terence Fretheim
Hi David,
Obviously, I'm not Terence Fretheim. But I'll try to answer your questions
as best I can, relying again on his book "Exodus" (John Knox Press, 1991),
which is part of the "Interpretation" series.
"1. What is the difference between the 'word of God' and 'a constructive
theological statement'?"
"Hence its theology is in the service of its message." (p.10) As I
understand him, Fretheim means that Exodus is about what God did and said in
a particular time and place, not as much about what God Does and Says by
Virtue of Being God.
"2. Can the 'word of God' be found outside of theology?"
I think theology often has to catch up to the word of God. For example,
Peter's vision of the clean and unclean animals and the subsequent baptism
of Cornelius--Peter's theology, and the theology of the early Christian
community, had no room for this word. Whether one looks at the story as
"actually" happening or as a retrospective justification of the inclusion of
Gentiles in the gospel message, it's still a case of theology having to
catch up with the living relationship people had with God.
Of course, the idea that "God is still speaking" is in itself a theological
statement, so in that sense, no, the word of God can't be found outside of a
theological framework. But it can be found outside of established doctrines.
"The Bible is looked upon as being the unchanging,
everlasting Word of God and its 'particular formulation' applies to us every
bit as much as it did to ancient Israel. My guess is that this might be
truer than not for most UCC'ers."
I'll quote myself from a previous message:
[[A lot of research has been done about how churchgoers in different
denominations view the Bible. (Along with other congregational research,
e.g., the Hartford Institute for Religion Research,
http://hirr.hartsem.edu/). In my home congregation, when we were preparing
our profile for a senior pastor search, the most common answer was "the
Bible contains the words of God but is not the literal Word of God," and the
second most common answer was "the Bible is a valuable collection of wisdom
and teaching." Those seem to be in line with the UCC mainstream.]]
Your mileage may vary. I am not sure if there have been any studies of the
UCC as a whole, done either by the national setting or a third party.
"3. What is the Word of God?"
"The Old Testament is the word of God for the Christian church. That is, it
is a means by which God speaks words of judgment and grace to the community
of faith. It may be said to have other functions...But, at the heart of
things, the Old Testament serves to bring people face-to-face with the
Father of Jesus Christ, and in that encounter God speaks." (p.1)
Fretheim seems to make a distinction between a word of God and the Word of
God, the divine logos, Wisdom as revealed in Christ and the Holy Scripture.
Adapting his position, it would seem that the Word of God is the sum of the
words of God--and since "God is still speaking," we do not yet have a
complete understanding of the Word, however well we might (or might not)
understand the words of God we have inherited.
"4. How important is the need to close the gap between the local church on
the village green and the seminary?"
Fretheim doesn't address this question, as far as I can tell. If I were to
give an answer, I would say that pastors will not be able to do their job if
they have one interpretation for themselves and their colleagues ("me/us"),
and another interpretation for "them," the congregation. Beyond that, I have
seen successful evangelicals with "simple" interpretations, successful
conservative Anglicans/Catholics/Orthodox with "complicated" but closed
interpretations, and successful progressives with open-ended
interpretations. (By "successful," I mean ministers who nurture their
congregations into more engaged, compassionate, faithful lives).
"We don't do ourselves any good if we see 'God's work in
creation' as being all light. There is darkness as well.
5. How do we account for and deal with the darkness of God?"
That brings us back to the question of theodicy. The standard answers I know
of are:
a) The darkness isn't from God, it is from Satan/sin/etc. and is an
inevitable consequence of endowing creatures with free will, since choosing
light is meaningless if darkness isn't a real option.
b) The darkness just *looks* dark to us, based on our limited mortal
understanding. (Predestination's variation: Even darkness is for the glory
of God, so it might be dark for us, but light in an absolute sense).
c) We don't know and can't know why darkness is in the world, but we do know
that it isn't the will of God, because "God's heart is the first to break."
All three standard answers affirm that God's work in creation is, in fact,
all light. The fact that books keep getting written on theodicy, of course,
is a good sign that the standard answers fail to be persuasive in one way or
another.
(One Jewish answer to the question that I've always responded to, despite
the fact that it's mostly incompatible with Christianity and my
understanding of God, is: God plays favorites and does things that aren't
nice. Get over it. When you can create your own universe, then you can go
tell God what God did wrong in this one.)
"6. Is Yahweh God or a 'particular formulation' now, in many ways,
'unsuitable' for this present generation?"
I think Fretheim would say that's a false binary choice ("God does not
remain unchanged by all that happens" p. 15). I know I would. The idea that
God as we experience God never changes is, historically speaking, the child
of vigorously Reformed Protestantism and Modernism. In that sense, it is a
symptom of our own human intellectual pride, more than a Biblical precept or
lived experience of the universal church.
"I think it would be more accurate to say that our ideas about God change
and
evolve as we experience life."
Given that we can't put God on a slide and examine God under a microscope,
run God through replicable experiments, etc., I don't see much value in
trying to pin down exactly where "God" stops and "ideas about God" start.
I love my son. My love for my son is unchanging and, to a certain degree,
defines me as a parent. But me loving my son will look different at age 2,
10, 20, 30...it is not just that his ideas about my love will change and
evolve, but my love will actually change and evolve in response to how he
experiences life.
"7. If we say 'God is' or 'God is not' are we really talking about God or
what we imagine God to be?"
Are we talking from logic? From faith? From experience? From doctrine? The
answers to your question will be very different, depending on the
perspective.
Peace,
Mark Kille
John P. Webster Library
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